New York’s governor wants to “liberate” kids — by taking their phones

There’s a hot new trend this back-to-school season: cellphone bans. At least eight states have enacted regulations limiting cellphone use in schools so far this year, and many more individual districts and schools have implemented similar policies on their own. The changes are driven by bipartisan concern that teenagers are unable to break away from their phones and concentrate in class, or even just talk to people in real life, as well as growing concern about the pervasive mental health challenges posed by social media. “At first I thought it was going to be really annoying, but it’s actually not that bad,” said Lev Zitcer, a freshman at Science Leadership Academy in Philadelphia, which is limiting phone use this year. “I think there’s like a different level of communication that comes with, like, being bored.” New York Gov. Kathy Hochul agrees. She’s been campaigning to enact a cellphone ban across the Empire State. “I’ve talked to schools where they have banned cellphones. We’ve found out that there are a lot of challenges involved. But if you get ahead of it, we can be successful,” Hochul told Today, Explained co-host Sean Rameswaram. Below is an excerpt of Sean’s conversation with Hochul, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to Today, Explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts. Sean Rameswaram You’ve got a lot on your plate. You’ve got that — we saw you at the DNC. Obviously, a lot of election stuff in the air right now. There’s been a lot of controversy around congestion pricing. But we’re here to focus on getting cellphones out of the classroom. Why is this an important issue for you right now? Kathy Hochul This is the end of a long journey that I started about a year-and-a-half, two years ago, when I was seeing data about teenagers really struggling after the pandemic. And I wanted to know what’s going on with the kids. And I have a lot of teenage nieces and nephews and I’m seeing things happening that are not positive. I started talking to teenagers, going around to schools, every corner of the state, convening them and finding out that they are so affected by the bombardment of addictive algorithms on social media throughout the day. And also the extreme cases of FOMO. They need to know what’s happening — the girls meeting in the restroom without them? Is a party being planned and they’re not there? So these kids’ stress levels are off the charts. But meanwhile, this is during the school day when they’re supposed to be paying attention to a teacher, learning something and ultimately graduating. So it’s a huge distraction. I know the opposition, what they’re going to say — they’re going to tell me that they need to be able to reach their children if there’s a crisis. And I’ll tell you right now, that was my first reaction, like, well, okay, they may not need to have access to the internet, social media during the day, but they certainly need a cellphone to contact their parents if there’s a mass shooting — every parent’s nightmare. But what I heard from law enforcement disabused me of that notion … They said if there is a crisis on campus, no matter what it is, the last thing you want are your kids reaching for their cellphone, trying to communicate with them, take pictures, getting video of it. You want them to pay attention to the head of the classroom, their teacher, to lead them to safety. And I was persuaded the second I heard that from law enforcement. Sean Rameswaram Interesting. As you alluded to, a lot of schools are doing this. Schools across the country are doing this, states across the country are doing this. Blue states, red states, they’re taking different approaches. What approach do you want to take in New York? Kathy Hochul We’re winding down in our information-gathering process. First of all, I can’t do anything as governor without the legislature. So I’m basically building the case, building the data, the narratives, the information from the surgeon general, other experts, authors who study this, building the argument that, first of all, our young people are better off without access to a cellphone during the school day. And teachers, 72 percent of teachers in this country are saying it’s a big distraction. It is not helping the learning process. In fact, it’s hindering. So we are looking at and I’m going to be proposing this in the next few months before they meet again in January, more likely a cellphone ban … It is easier to lock them up at the beginning of the school day, get them out at the end of the school day instead of: “Who’s going to make sure they have them locked up again when they come back from recess? Who’s going to make sure they’re locked up after lunch? What if they go to the restroom?” … The teachers don’t want to be the phone police. They want to teach. Sean Rameswaram I want to ask you about how parents might feel about that, because parents seem to be a big part of this equation. And it seems generally, and we’ve heard it from even, you know, a parent on our team, parents want to be able to communicate with their kids throughout the school day. And I’m wondering, one, are you hearing that from parents in New York state, and two, how you’re going to sell this to them when the time comes? Kathy Hochul That’s a good question. And here’s what I would say: Talk to the other parents who came to our meetings, but especially talk to the parents who are teachers. We get a lot of them. And people who understand what has happened to their child in this setting, that they’re a different person than they would otherwise be because of this constant communication to others when they’re supposed to [not be] distracted, they’re supposed to be learning. One mom said, “My son is being bullied throughout the day. My husband now leaves work early, so he’s there to be there when he gets home from school to make sure he doesn’t take his own life.” Because the intense pressure on kids being bullied through their phones, through the social media platform, it’s intense. Now, this is maybe a rare case. I’m not saying it’s common, but people don’t realize the pressure they’re under about how the kids look, what they say. It’s a tough environment to be a teenager under any circumstance, but you exacerbate it when you have all these outside external factors that are hitting them at the same time. When I was growing up, yes, there were bullies. Yes there were mean kids. You walked down the other hall, you avoided them, right? You can’t avoid being bombarded with messaging throughout the day. And we need our kids to be liberated. Sean Rameswaram Where do you think we’ll end up as a country? … Do you think we’ll end up in a place where every school will be doing some version of this? Kathy Hochul My view is that if we never start out with an expectation that they’re allowed in schools, this will be the first generation we liberate from that, and then the subsequent ones will not have that same pressure … It’s all about listening to the kids. They want us to save them. And I’m the adult who’s going to be willing to do that.

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New York’s governor wants to “liberate” kids — by taking their phones